A Recipe for Conversation
Issue 152, featuring an interview with Grace Russo
A little snow can’t stop The Girl’s Guide! In case you’re new here: every other Friday, I interview an interesting woman, share something I’ve been thinking about lately, and recap the latest news at the intersection of pop culture and politics. This post is too long to fit in an email, so go ahead and click over into browser view to read the whole thing.
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A Recipe for Conversation
Conversing with our friends and family is easy and enjoyable. Conversing with strangers and acquaintances is not as easy, and it seems like modern life is giving us fewer and fewer chances to practice (thanks but no thanks, self-checkout). That’s why it can feel so incredibly intimidating to visit a new church and go through the gauntlet of greeters, or walk into a networking event where you only know a few people.
What if I told you that not only practice but pattern is the key to feeling comfortable in these situations? I’m a relatively outgoing person who actually enjoys talking to other parents at the park and people next to me in line, so I feel semi-qualified to discuss this topic. Our culture seems to have the idea that conversation exists on a binary: either it is spontaneous, extemporaneous, and rapturous, or else it is awkward, canned, and boring. We tend to go into conversations with strangers and near-strangers thinking that it’s pure chance whether we’ll end up with one or the other, and that any kind of script in conversation is bad. But what if I told you that having a few conversation scripts — recipes for success, if you will — in your back pocket is actually good?
I can’t promise you’ll become someone who relishes talking to strangers with a few easy steps — but I am sharing my tips for starting and steering conversations below:
1. Perfect your icebreaker.
Icebreaker, cold open, whatever you want to call it — sometimes it’s more awkward to be sharing space with someone WITHOUT talking than it is to be in conversation with them. If you find yourself in a situation with strangers frequently, it’s okay to develop a default icebreaker when you’re in that situation — kind of like how the restaurant greeter always says “Welcome to Chili’s!” when you walk in.
Since I have young children, we spend a lot of time at the playground, which means interacting with parents and children we’ve never met before and may never meet again. It makes it more pleasant for everyone to acknowledge each other. And who knows? You may need that goodwill later when your kid comes down the slide and lands on someone else’s kid’s head.
When I am at the park, if I’m within about six feet of another parent (not so far away that I have to shout!), I will simply ask them, “How old?” That’s it. I just gesture vaguely toward the towheaded creature I take to be their child and ask “How old?” Pleasant conversation ensues, and there’s no pressure to either maintain or end it because, well, moms often have to run off and save their children from falling off swings and what have you. Sometimes we’ll be leaving a park after an hour, and I’ll realize I asked “How old?” to every single parent at the playground.
The nice thing about this icebreaker is that it makes no assumptions. I’m not trying to guess the child’s age. I’m not even assuming the adult is the parent (it can sometimes be hard to tell who’s a nanny and who’s not). I’m just getting conversation going about our common ground — the children we are keeping from eating sand at the playground — and seeing where it goes.
2. Kill the cool girl inside you.
The cool girl is dead. Kill the cool girl inside of you if you want to make friends with strangers. The cool girl is never impressed — which sucks for her, actually. There are times and places to play the critic, but if you’re trying to work a room, that’s not one of them. I’m a naturally effusive person — some would even say “prosocially goofy” — but you don’t have to be over-the-top bubbly to be able to connect with strangers. You just need to be sincere.
This conversation script is most helpful if you’re at an event like a reception or a tour. When you’re introduced to someone and need to make conversation, or if you’re solo and want to start talking to somebody, the least weird thing you can do is turn to him or her and say, “Wow! The organizers put a lot of effort into this event! It is really great!” And unless he or she is a total Eeyore, he or she will say, “Yes! It is very nice. In fact, I helped pull together X aspect of the event.” And then you will have something to talk about. It’s tough when you’re thrown into conversation with someone you barely know. You could both be in the same industry, or both know the groom at the wedding, but you’re still just not sure how to steer the conversation. Sometimes you have very little to go on! You can use a vague compliment of the event to figure out which way to go. It hasn’t failed me yet.
3. Take your losses with a sense of humor.
I must level with you: sometimes you do run into the aforementioned Eeyore. Just remind yourself that it’s him or her, not you! Let’s say you’re at a happy hour and you’ve had pleasant conversations with several strangers just by saying “Wow! These decorations are nice!” or some such thing. Then you encounter Eeyore. Eeyore does not think the decorations are nice. Eeyore finds everything at the event lacking. Eeyore talks over you when you try to disagree. Politely excuse yourself and have a quiet chuckle while refilling your drink. Pretend you are Jim Halpert looking into the camera after dealing with Dwight Schrute. Shake it off and don’t let it discourage you from approaching people and making connections.
So there you have it, a few of the ingredients I like to include in my recipe for conversation! Please let me know what you think by leaving a comment with the button below!
Interview with Grace Russo
Today’s interview is with Grace Russo, managing editor of Pennyworth Publishing! If you enjoy poetry and children’s literature, Grace is the gal you need to know! Serendipitously, today is her birthday — so be sure to wish her a happy birthday as well!
What does your life look like right now?
It’s never a dull moment, and I do generally like that. I have three kids under 6, and I’m due with another right before my eldest’s 6th birthday! So far I have all girls (5, 3, 2), and I homeschool the eldest, send the middle to two-day-a-week, half-day preschool, and keep the toddler at home. Once a week when I take my eldest to co-op, I drop the toddler off at my mother’s house. She (the toddler) will tell you very seriously that it is NOT babysitting, it is “Mimi School.” Branding is everything.
I used to have a pretty serious internet addiction, and I’ve slowly beaten that into submission by deleting Twitter and putting severe screen time limits on my phone. Instead, I’ve really leaned into the hobbies I either had ages ago and set aside or found along the way. Fiber arts are QUITE a rabbit hole to go down. Join me!! A jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one. I also decided to start an indie children’s publishing company, Pennyworth Publishing, this year, to publish both my own work and help others tell worthwhile stories, illustrated by human hands. I’ll leave out the rant about AI-gen “art,” because I’m sure you’ve heard it before.
We go to a small Roman Catholic Ordinariate parish and we’re really lucky to have found a vibrant and intergenerational community. My poor husband has a horrible commute down into DC from my hometown where we now live, but he doesn’t have to go in every day, and it makes my everyday life full of family help which really makes all of the hobby stuff I do possible.
What’s your biggest “Aha!” moment as a mom so far?
Probably after the birth of my second child. I was dealing with some PPA and a general feeling of overwhelm, and the crux of my short-lived and extremely effective therapeutic treatment was: only do the things you actually like. I am not someone who enjoys cooking much. Why did I feel the need to make everything from scratch (including bread!)? The vague feeling that I was “supposed” to be a SAHM a certain way — full from-scratch meals, etc. — was making me feel really guilty. Unfollow those influencers. Prioritize your time according to YOUR family and YOUR energy levels. Also, we hired a cleaning lady to scrub the bathrooms and such twice a month. We tidy up the floors and counters, and then I whisk the children to the library or something, and I come back to a clean house. It’s awesome if you can budget for it. It works for us better than a date night or takeout because we put our kids to bed early and can have a date night with a movie or what have you at home, because the house is so clean it becomes more restful.
What’s your favorite or most useful clothing purchase of the last year?
Oh dear. I’m afraid that this last year has not really been one for clothing purchases. I had my first baby the same month I finished grad school so my wardrobe went from cute/prep/goth/going out clothes, to Business-y Please Take Me Seriously clothes, to this random assortment of pregnancy and nursing clothes I still haven’t really figured out. I’m definitely moving towards the ethically made, natural fiber type of stuff but don’t have a solid “style” yet. I’m going to cop out here and say that I sewed an adjustable waist skirt based on a historical design that’s wearable at any size and has huge pockets. It’s not actually a purchase because a friend gave me the fabric, too!
What’s your favorite thing in your home right now and where did you find it?
My husband is in his office right behind me and I found him on July 4th, 2017, at a party in Eastern Market. You can’t order one though, this was a one of one and it’s mine! Another favorite might be what we call The Lady. She was free at an estate sale and has a massive, ornate frame. She’s some type of older photograph, maybe a collodion silver print or a gelatin silver print. She’s probably Edwardian; she has puffed sleeves and a high collar with a fancy brooch clasping it shut.
What’s something you wish you could go back and tell your 21-year old self?
Luckily, she’s about to meet her husband. She also needs to think about how she spends her time. Build something, make something, spend time with people you care about! Stop futzing around online trying to seem chic for people you don’t know. The internet is only as real as you make it.
Bulletin Board
ISO HOUSING: A young married couple I know is moving to the DC area from May-August and looking for housing (basement, apartment, open to any options) in the Capitol Hill vicinity if possible. If you have any leads for this couple, send me a message with the button below, or reply to this email!
The Haps
Good Luck, Bridgit! Former Disney Star’s Tech Company in the News
In the world of famous actresses who take breaks to attend Ivy League universities, Bridgit Mendler is the final boss. The former star of Disney’s “Good Luck Charlie” has degrees from MIT and Harvard and is back in the news due to the success of her company Northwood Space. Mendler is the CEO of Northwood, which just secured a nearly $50 million contract with the U.S. Space Force. Her husband Griffin Cleverly (nominative determinism much?) is Northwood’s CTO. Read more about Northwood’s latest news by clicking here.
Here are more links to what I’m reading and listening to lately:
Bring Back “Friends to Lovers”—But With Real Boundaries (Verily): Madeline Fry Schultz reviews Netflix’s new romcom “People We Meet on Vacation.”
Why young Danes are still having sex (The Spectator): It’s the economy, stupid, Felice Basboll writes.
When You Don’t Want to Talk About the Weather (The Elevate Edit): Alison M. Cheperdak has some great tips for small talk — looks like we both have conversation skills on the brain!
The Fanfiction Reckoning (ft. Veronica Clarke) (Secret Third Thing): First Things has a new podcast — check it out! My favorite no-context quotes: “It’s both fan fiction and propaganda, which makes it great!” and “Is Dramione going to save the West?”
Ask Evie
Have a question you want me to answer in the newsletter? Click this link to send your question anonymously! You can read my most recent Ask Evie column, about friendships and political differences, by clicking here.
In case you missed it…
Thank you so much for including my piece, Evie! I appreciate you!
Thanks, Evie, for interviewing Grace!
Grace, so many things you said resonated with me!
I’m an empty nester who homeschooled four kids for over 20 years. When I was in the busy years you’re in now, I told my husband, I could get a babysitter so I could clean the house, but I would rather get a cleaning lady and take the kids to the library! So that is what we did—and I have recommended this to young moms for years. So—go you!!
I’ve just gotten into macrame recently. I’ve done various projects with it, but the most fun was a 5 x 7 foot wall hanging that I donated to the auction at the Christian children’s home where my husband works.
My daughters have recently clued me in to the horrible realities of fast fashion, so I’ve been thinking more about how to have a closet that I can feel morally and ethically good about. And just generally trying to live a more environmentally responsible life!
And then you used the word futzing! I didn’t know anyone else except our family ever used it. What a great word! 😆
Anyway, thanks for sharing! I’m subscribing, of course.
I’m new to Substack. I’ve only posted one of my poems so far, but it has been really great to meet kindred spirits like you here! Blessings to you and your kiddos!